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Do I Manage Renewables with my Existing Infrastructure or Do we need a Complete Technology Infrastructure Rethink?

todayNovember 4, 2021 525 199 4

Background

PANEL DISCUSSION
• How do I manage contracts in such different trading products?
• View of the ETRM community
• Handling additional volatility
• Looking ahead… What about hydrogen? Biomass? Biomethane? Helium? Ammonium?

MARC OSTWALD, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI
CHIRAG AHUJA, ETRM Support, Varo Energy
ANDRE JAEGER, SVP Product Management, ION

Transcript

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

0:00

And welcome to this session on Dubai manager renewables with my existing infrastructure. Or do I? Do we need a complete technology, infrastructure rethink. My name is Marc Ostwald. I’m Chief Economist at ADM ISI. And I’d like to pass the well pass over for a brief introduction to first Andre and then Chirag to tell you a little bit about their background.

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

0:32

Perfect, thanks, Marc. So my name is Andre Jaeger. I started around 2004 at open links and actually joined an iron buyer the acquisition. I had various roles across the years started originally as an implementation consultants and moved into pre sales were kind of demo the product and kind of ended up eventually in product management. Got a global perspective of the market as well as the company worked a couple of years out of New York, London, and Berlin. Currently, I manage a cross product team of SMEs and market owners that manage the iron commodities portfolio says all about product positioning user group interaction, strategic roadmap and similar items. Currently, I’m working on a Berlin’s and I have actually two bought Eric

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

1:31

Thank you, Marc. Thank you, Andre. Hi, my name is Chirag Ahuja, I started my career in EDR, M seven years back, I’m from the Silicon Valley of India, Bangalore. Currently, I work as an etrm analyst for borrow energy. I’m based out of Hamburg. And right now very exciting times for us in the era of space, in borrow as well, because we’re sitting right at the cusp of the energy transfer transformation period, which is ongoing right now. Thank you.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

2:03

So just sort of a brief overview, I think one of the important things for this session is basically to compare and contrast, your what the differences are in terms of perspectives. From on the one side, the providers, and on the other hand, the end users. So we have two good people here to offer some insights on that front. First question would be, so this is quite obviously, quite broad, broad, but what are the key challenges to evolving and developing etrm systems for renewable power and fuels? Above all, given the additional complexity? Perhaps you’d like to kick that one off? Chirag as an end user?

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

2:55

Yeah, sure. Sure, Marc. Thank you for that. And actually, what I did was is I took the idea of the US justice system, where I thought there’s wisdom in the crowd. And I asked this to my LinkedIn network of what did they feel about it? So I asked them, specifically what you asked what would be the biggest challenge on boarding, green energy on an ATR platform? So from the lowest to the highest? The least, was the spike in trading volumes. The network didn’t believe that. Number two was lack of domain know how in it, does my it know what I’m really talking about? Number three, unclear business requirements was one of the answers of with the second highest votes. And of course, the fourth one with the highest most response I received was uncertain and changing regulations, which I think you have also touched upon quite a lot in your past or better panel. addition to this, I had also asked them what is the most key feature you want to see out of your etrm Managing renewables and, again, from low to high was handling large data sets. The second one was ability to integrate with other apps. The third one, and the fourth one, we’re sharing the number one slot, which is reliable and accurate piano and nimble the changing requirements. But but here’s the contradiction, which I feel I think etrm by legacy, by its nature has not is not inherent, to change very fast. It’s not dynamic, because understandably, so billions of dollars worth of trade flows through it and you have to know exactly where if anything, breaks, where it’s breaking, what is my exposure, cause. So I think there will be this continuous tug of war between being fast and being accurate. And I think Andrei would be be able to better off elaborate onto how he sees this tug of war playing out with his clients. And right?

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

5:09

Yep. So I can speak a little bit to kind of what we have seen based on the kind of existing client base and how we interact with them. So renewable transition is kind of one of the key investment drivers for us, because it’s a strong focus off the existing client base. And I think as you said, Mark, we will distinguish between kind of, here’s the client base that focus on the renewable power area, so utilities, commodity traders, but also new players that come to the market. And they’ll know on the other side renewable fuels were some of the refiners marketers integrated oil companies play. And we actually run user groups, that we kind of utilized as a forum to discuss specific needs of our client community. And as usually in two areas, one is kind of back, best practice in the solution, kind of how it should be utilized, or is there something that we can package up for them? And the other area is, of course, kind of product, roadmap direction and investment, what do we need to do to kind of support the transition itself? If I think about it, what are the key areas that kind of came up in the user group or in the individual client discussion? And I think the first one I would mention is around certificates. And here, again, would distinguish between the two sites I mentioned before one that’s kind of the renewable fuel fights, are we talking about rims, and that’s a lot about that combination of what do you have in inventory? What did you blend and how to track the related certificates, then the ability to report that and to kind of be compliant to your particular regulation. And then on a renewable power site, it’s more about green power certificates. So racks go three goes rocks of thirds. Carbon certificates are pre established. And I think they’re quite simple to be modeled. But there’s definitely more complexity on the green power side, we see on those kind of common transaction type, you buy yourself a certificate, you need to kind of Mali a production, you have an obligation demand. And you need to track inventory by the different kind of classifications. decent amount of variation by region. So that brings some of the additional complexities. So here, he will turn over x doesn’t mean you’re able to handle goals. So Wrexham or North America focus on more up, you want to kind of manage the registry side, so the scheduling or certificates, the ID tracking, and then hopefully get some type of automation, integrating that. And then last but not least, is position reporting. So aligning the obligation you have on the certificate side with some of the certificates that you have in allocated or currently in inventory. And you need to do it on a certain time bucket classification. The next area that we see was always kind of a big discussion topic is power purchase agreements, PPAs. That’s kind of the contract for a post feed and terrorists world. And it’s all about kind of getting appropriate financing for some of these investments. And we see again, kind of some common needs, on those contract types, but definitely some variation for different regions, depending on what underlying technology we have. And then, of course, what is the risk adversity of that particular client. So what of the better flexibility do I want to manage myself or which I kind of transferred to my counterpart, and then around the PPAs, one of the key aspects is to kind of manage the volume, so the time series, so it’s long term contracts as basically long, long time series, usually small granularity hourly, or 15 minutes, you frequently want to update those forecasts to kind of have the latest and greatest on the CRM side, you need to manage your forecasts, you need to manage actuals, you get corrections. And that’s kind of always linked to particular settlement itself. And then of course, complexity of the payoff for embedded volume, volume flexibility, again, some variation, because the pay is produced, pay as forecasted six volumes profile, nonlinear pricing, maybe some colors, some are just send an index or six price, certain penalties linked to volume. And then as I mentioned, to kind of get the position management get all the exposure, the ability to do scenario analysis, my kind of P 50 versus my P 90. And kind of evaluate that into context of my portfolio. How does my hedging look like in combination with different production level and be able to do that risk management aspect in relation to kind of the more traditional business itself and alive aspects. If a trade volume, I think that’s something that’s ongoing for a while, we have clients that kind of manage 10 to 50,000 trades a day, usually very small volumes.

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

10:12

Most of them kind of driven by some algorithmic execution. I don’t think that’s new, but it’s just kind of more renewable transition more renewable generation, more need to kind of balance on the intraday side. And for the CGM is definitely key aspect to be able to digest that trade volume provided automate. But at the same time, the ability to reconcile on the lower granularity that always kind of speed and performance, I would say this is kind of the main items that we see in context, when we talk to the user group in relation to kind of what are some of the key system requirements from a from a system perspective, but definitely tell us to cover what she rock said, I think we still expect a lot of uncertainty, there’s a lot of discussions around how certain things can be modeled, or what will be required in the future. So it’s kind of good to have those in interaction with the users. And I think we will see continuous change, but this is the ones kind of we see most frequently at the moment.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

11:23

So yes, it’s I mean, just to get an idea, I mean, what sort of order relative to say, something much simpler in well, simpler, I don’t want to put this down, put this the wrong way. But the relatively simpler bits are and established. Hydrocarbon trading, your what sort of order of data requirements? Are we talking about multiplying up here? Your it clearly is a much bigger universe of data that needs to be managed. Do you want to kick that one off? Sure.

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

12:01

Yeah, sure, Marco. So most studies, which I’ve been through indicate that by 2050, the share of the renewable of the overall energy mix would go up between 20% to 60%. So depending upon, if you’re a half glass full or half glass, empty person, you would take a view, presuming you’re in the middle, and save 40% of the overall energy mix is renewables. And now if I translate that into into the average etrm application, that’s, that’s, that’s a huge surge in the data within your etrm application, almost half of your data would be linked to renewables. And, and not only is the share of renewables going to be increased of the overall mix, but the the pie itself is going to be bigger by 2050. So we have this huge surge of data which is going to come in, and even the source of the data is going to change, I’m going to become very interesting, because another data point I gathered is that 13 out of 100 units of electricity, which would be produced in future would be from households, rooftop solar, stuff like that. So getting that into and capturing that would also play a role where your consumers are, in fact, hybrid in nature, we’re also producers. So I think it would be very interesting to see this etrm systems being capturing this data, and then of course, doing the things it does on it. And it would, from my perspective, be very interesting to watch that.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

13:52

Andre, I’m gonna add a little bit to the question. And you you’re providing these the solution, your if you could also sort of give us some light on how much you’re reliant also on data providers, and how the complexity of adding that in and the fact that it’s very new universe. Yep.

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

14:18

I think requirement wise, I think there’s usually the the CTR c term is in the middle and needs to be capable of capable of digesting kind of a lot of inputs, but also generating some of these outputs and low granularity for further digestion and being able to combine with other datasets. So I think on the pricing side, power, I still think very similar, from a pricing perspective definitely has kind of initial market data on the certificate side. And there’s kind of we’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. What kind of combination of classifications really kind of result in different pricing terms. And there’s a lot of classifications that we’re currently talking about. And I just don’t believe that that will be kind of feasible to manage five different technology, various different timeframe, how old the plan is, which region, it is sort of just kind of multiplying, if you think about kind of what price points you would need, in this particular case, we’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. On the other on the data and volume management, I think he especially in the context of EPA has been able to handle forecasts. So you need to have a good forecasting tool. And you want to as frequently as possible, be able to kind of play that into the CRM to kind of have any downstream decision making and positions of metal, if it’s p&l exposure or physical to kind of evaluating the latest and greatest what you believe is the most appropriate forecast that needs to be handled trade volume we talked about. And their mix, kind of being able to do some of these low level reconciliation without clogging any of the kind of speed of the system to kind of generate data, it’s definitely kind of that ability to extract the data that are generated in the CRM and easily able to combine with I don’t know additional weather data or make it accessible in the algo tool. So one is kind of ever fed the input side, the other one is also being able to quickly and possibly in real time to extract those data for further downstream consumer or consumption. I think that’s the current one. I have, I agree with Marc on what he talked about the other area, which at the moment, we don’t see too much being asked for, but we expect something coming, there’s that whole topic of prosumers. Being able to kind of manage some flexibility, some storage side, if you think kind of bought broader Evie fleets in the future. And to kind of utilize some of that flexibility. In context of kind of how you trade and how you manage your portfolio itself. We’ll be interesting to see how that’s going with starting kind of initial discussion with clients about battery storage. But I would expect we see more trading, getting into figuring out how to manage some of these embedded flexibility and motion as a whole because that individually easy will not make a difference. But if I have a huge fleet, and I can utilize the flexibility to my advantage will be interesting to the utilize I bet in the future.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

17:38

Okay, and you were talking about developing this systems and to the sheer the increase in volume. I know your survey, your informal survey there provided the people that really think that trade volumes were an issue. But I’m just wondering, you know, we’ve gone through the disruption from COVID. Very variable, you know, sharp changes in demand. We’ve now gotten into a different phase where we’ve got this power crisis, not just in Europe, but actually around the world in China and Brazil, in India. Even in the United States, your are there other any your Have there been any gaps, which have shown been shown up as a result of this visit? If to some extent it’s been a, I suppose, I suppose useful this word I would use? I think for some people it might be it’s been a bit of a nightmare, but I’m just thinking as a stress test. It’s an interesting one.

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

18:49

Absolutely, I couldn’t agree more. And I’ll give you a real life example of what happened in my case of, we had a requirement gathering session with a client where LNG had to be loaded into the trucks transported to the port, or the truck goes in onto Roro vessel roll on roll off, it reaches the destination, the truck goes out, reaches the retail unit. I had understood that my developer was on the call as well, who understood that, but then when we were designing and I was speaking with my developer, I told him, so LNG goes into the vessel, the vessel gets to the port LNG goes up. And this game of Chinese whisper happened. So now we design the code without the truck. Basically, it was LNG getting inside the ship, which is which now so now the ship became Q max, which was never the case it was row row. And, and then the algorithm, and you see the algorithm did not handle what was really required by the client. Fortunately, we had an early design review, where we visualize this on the board with him and with the developer And we realize no, this is not it. But I think from my perspective that is what is really missing, you can never do a proper whiteboarding session. We are WebEx in such a complex market. And I think, I think as offices reopen, and as things come back on, translating those requirements from the business user, to the business analyst to the tester and developer, and cutting across the whole lifecycle will, be very key. And I think this is put a lot more demand on on the business analyst or the consultant, where, where he or she has to play different roles within the same company one day, one day, they are a trader trying to test a new functionality in the front office, the next day, they are doing invoicing, the third day in nominations. So and of course, at the same time speak Java C and SQL. So that’s a lot of demands from the from the from the consult, and these resources, as well as scarce and few. And you can see that translating into the market as well. So we have a huge challenge ahead in front of us where there’s this massive transformation required when it comes to energy and bringing on green, and and such a few at such a short supply of the talent, which is required to get there.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

21:18

Yes, it skills shortages. It seems to be an issue pretty much everywhere in the world, partly because they’re not not enough people are studying in universities, but also because we’ve got an aging demographic, you my personal view is that I think there’s going to be a greater requirement to retain experience is going to be very important. But yeah, that’s a side point. Well, how does this look from your perspective, Andre.

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

21:54

I think maybe the first point is just based on the market situation that we’re currently in changing requirements, more volatility, we definitely see an increased demand for kind of putting a more sophisticated system in place. Kind of we interact with would love clients that using to come off or looking for kind of more sophisticated risk management tools to kind of manage some of the market changes or manage some of the volatilities and related exposure that they have. from a company perspective, I think in general, just in addition to the situation was definitely a little bit more challenging to kind of stay in touch with clients. I think we have decent setup with account management and our user group. But I think one of the points that I definitely realized, in the last couple of months, especially around renewable trends, transformation, we organized a set of webinars for existing clients to kind of go deeper into kind of particular capability that they can utilize on our products and kind of talk a little bit about best practice utilizing capability in the system. And that opened a little bit the eye in the context in for myself in the context of that there’s a lot of clients that utilize some of the solutions that might be not aware of kind of what could be brought to the table or how it could be utilized in the most appropriate way or could be utilized in light of these kind of new requirements. And I think that’s something that we have on the to do list to kind of figure out a little bit more how to better distribute some of those knowledge doesn’t matter if it’s kind of the client itself, or some of the third parties that work with our clients implementing our solution to kind of make sure that they are aware what is best practice, give them the right tools, maybe give some kind of pre predefined content at hand, to make it easier for them to kind of use the system from the best practice perspective. And then there’s definitely some, some demand in this area, education wise, which I think fits very well was once you are upset about kind of dead SME accessibility and from a Windows perspective, I think we just need to make sure that it’s distributed that’s in our own interest, because otherwise you will get a lot of dissatisfied five clients because maybe they did something that negatively impacts user experience or performance. So floss to kind of re educate around best practice and how certain needs need to be addressed in the system.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

24:39

Okay, and yeah, I mean, it sort of moving on from that. How much is this whole lack of regulatory? Well, the well one, the lack of regulatory definition anywhere and then more broadly, the very the risk of some divergence between countries between regions. Obviously, one has to remember that different regions are going to have different sort of renewables product mixes. But how does that play into the complexity of setting yo, adapting the existing wall existing or adding to adding new etrm? Infrastructure?

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

25:36

First, yep. All right. So the first, definitely a challenge that we see across experience is kind of the variation on various instruments. And this sort of kind of a challenge, not just from a system perspective, but also from a business process perspective, but because usually you start with a business process. And the system needs to support kind of the implication of the business process. And that needs to be reflected in the implementation that needs to be reflected in the training side, that needs to be also reflected in the system. And you might run into situations that if it’s an incapable to support this, and this, then might require to kind of think about, okay, we need to get a new system. And this is something we see definitely at the moment clients that come to us because existing systems are not able to support that kind of renewable needs, or maybe they come from a bulk commodity world and want to go deeper into power. So there’s definitely some additional complexity that comes to the table or another great example is, as you said, kind of depending on how much renewable power production I have, it has totally different implications on the risk management side. So what if you think about it effect called cannibalization, if I work in a region where a lot of kind of renewable power is produced, and then suddenly, the winter flowing, or sun shining, everybody’s producing at the same time more, which means that more production was correlated to kind of negative price effects because of just more supply. The other key aspect is this like that unknown unknowns, so we’re clearly sure that there will be more changes coming down, and there will be more variations. And it’s all about kind of having the flexibility to react to those kind of market changes. It’s, then of course, important to have a system that has that flexibility. Otherwise, you run into situations that you might be dependent to wait on a particular vendor to kind of do some new development for your purposes, or you have to danger that the problem will be solved by the business side and XL are outside of their control structure landscape, which can be dangerous. So in summary, I would say it’s definitely additional cost expense, that to deal with those variations will be nice. If, for example, certificates are more streamlined. That’s definitely not the case at the moment, which makes it more complex. On the other hand, it’s an opportunity to solve that particular problem more efficiently or quicker. It’ll be quicker to market in that situation. So definitely more complexity, definitely some opportunity and definitely some cost related to achieving the opportunity itself. Sure,

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

28:33

yeah. Building upon what Andre said, though, and if I get your question correctly, Mark, how does one handle changes to etrm application? In my experience, I was watching this interesting podcast, two days back, it was about this jet fighter who was talking about how he how he takes on the opponent opponents jet. And, and says, and they have to deal with various different decisions and split second matters, he says that, I don’t have to think it 100% True, I just need to take it 80% rule. And then the remaining 20% I maneuver, I change based upon how it plays out. So every step I gain a little advantage. I’ve seen that taking from that. Where it helps me as well is when there’s a user requirement, of course i i First begin with the end in mind, and then try and see how do I give that 80% value and then immediately from the user as well you have some excitement and you have some feedback. So now they are on board with you now they are a partner with you in getting that change done. And I feel that that’s been working pretty well so far, where they also see value in what the system is trying to do. And then at the end, you change that little 20% where they’re also with you they’re on board with you and you are able to reach where you require a little bit more faster?

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

30:04

Okay. And this is a sort of eternal theme, I think across the conference. But all of this is that I think there’s sort of two questions. One, how much of an increase in costs? Are we talking about your? How much of it is related to development? How much of it is ongoing process management I permanent costs, as opposed to capital costs? And secondly, how do we deploy this across very different geographies? In terms of the strength of the relative economies we’re asking developing economies, emerging economies to basically be on board with the whole renewable energy process? But you’re given the cost background? That’s why I asked the cost question first, you know, what are we talking about in terms of feasibility? Whoever wants to go first?

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

31:17

I can. Sorry, you know, I just need I think the other topic we discussed in this context of limited existing versus dedicated IT infrastructure, which is, I think, a little bit more closer to kind of my, my particular expertise in this case. And I think it’s important to, work with capability that have some dedicated renewable focus. So key question, this particular case, that would imply also kind of making it easier for me and more cost effective to adopt this kind of, thus, my solutions that I have in house kind of support the changing needs of the energy transition itself. For myself, this is really a question is what is the focus of that particular vendor? Does he support the right commodity? And at the end, does that solve my transitional needs in this case? And as I said, for me, it’s not kind of an existing versus dedicated IT infrastructure question, it’s kind of clearly important to have specific capability to support that renewable transition. And for us, might be a little bit biased, kind of where I’m coming from. If that those specific need from renewable perspective, it’s very important, at least for the client base that we work with that it kind of works in tandem with some of these generic teacher CGM capability. So they don’t see necessarily the benefit of having a particular point solution because I have to PPAs I have to certificate I have the intraday kind of needs. But I want to combine that with an overall cross commodity risk management type of solution, I have back office needs that need to be solved, I have data management needs, and I want to have don’t want to manage that then data in multiple system, I have a hedging program for my more traditional business versus my renewable activity, limit management, etc. So for us, it’s at least kind of from a cost effective perspective, important to kind of support the community to kind of get the best of both worlds, get the dedicated focus with renewable capabilities, but combine it with kind of some more traditional CTMS to kind of keep it manageable. And as I said, I think there’s still some some additional effort on RSI to better educate how to best practice utilize the capability. Of course, there’s more items we always can do from a roadmap perspective. But that’s at least how we kind of plan for our client base to kind of make it as painless as possible. Of course, we cannot address some of these kind of bigger problems you’re talking about. But we definitely see that as an expensive items for a lot of our clients that need to be solved. Definitely often opportunity, but we want to make it as effective as possible for them.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

34:37

Sure,

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

34:38

I think Andre summed it up very quickly, if you could show the business value of either reduce costs or gain in time efficiencies or new opportunities arising out of the use of tech. I think then, I think cost is not such an important pleasure if you can really show the value But Mark, I think where your question comes from is a morphic economist, how you feel between developing and developed countries playing out in the transition. What from what I’ve seen is that developing countries argue is that it’s not fair to them that the developed countries economies were built on hydrocarbon. And now the same is expected from them. But then at the same time, we are also seeing massive reduction in the cost of solar cost of PV and a fair trade of technology transfer. So hence, I think you see countries like China and India with massive, massive solar projects going on, right.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

35:47

So yes, is your suppose within all of this, that technology transfer? And ZTR? And systems are part of that technology transfer? Your how much is sharing that going to be a key issue?

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

36:12

I’m not sure to be honest, this is definitely not my domain. So thank you.

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

36:21

It’s a good question. But I think it’s also a mindset. It’s not something that we haven’t answered. I think we tried to kind of stay on top kind of where the markets is going even kind of places where maybe it’s not as deregulated yet. Because that means that usually if you get kind of a market deregulated, there’s a higher need from a risk management perspective. But yeah, I think there’s a broader topic about CMS and kind of how to distribute the cost and kind of how to make technology accessible. It’s definitely not something that’s currently on on our agenda, specifically, but definitely something interesting to kind of consider and to kind of ensure that not taking advantage of anybody in this context.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

37:15

Yes, absolutely. Well, we are getting to the end of the session, I haven’t seen any specific questions. So do you both have any last thoughts on the subject? You want to start Andray?

Andre Jaeger, SVP Product Management, ION

37:30

Sure, maybe forward looking, as I said, Leave something that always comes to our mind that talked about the unknown unknown since I think this is a key aspect for us to kind of stay on top. So thanks, Austin, the market, listen to such conferences is looking at publications, we try to stay as close to our clients to kind of leverage the user group and kind of the knowledge and the power that we have in our community, share, discuss best practice, talk about design, product investment, it’s all about faster filtering out that individual needs and kind of industry needs. And this is where the user group is a great advantage, I believe, because you have that filtering out happening between clients directly. That sometimes much closer to the market than necessary, our business analyst. And the other key point for us is to kind of distinguish today’s needs. So where’s today’s pain point, capability wise, worse is kind of where the business going tomorrow. And I think that needs to be for us, at least from a system it perspective, kind of a balanced investment, support some of the short term needs, but also kind of keeping an eye on where we going with our batteries prosumers where it’s headed hydrocarbons going and that’s the key challenge of my world. And my job is something where we think trying to doing a good job by working closely with the clients that are really even closer to the business itself.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

39:07

Chirag

Chirag Ahuja, ETRM Support, Varo Energy

39:09

Well, yeah, at the cost of one minute left, I don’t know how to sum this up real quick, Satya, I would like to say that thank you commodities people for having this seminar. Thank you, Mark for hosting this. And Ray was a pleasure talking with you. And I really look forward to more of these such events. It really helps me get a perspective of different perspectives, especially the window perspective as well from our end, because I think a key role which will be played in future is for someone to be in between the client and the window. And I think consultant in house business analyst plays that role where where he can wear different hats to communicate with a vendor much faster, resulting in fruitful project outcome. Thank you, and thank you for having me.

Marc Ostwald, Chief Economist & Global Strategist, ADM ISI 

39:55

Thank you both very much. It’s been a great pleasure chatting to you both and getting no and I’m looking forward to keeping in touch and

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